|
aFicIoNadoS
|
Posted 9:44 pm, 03/29/2019
|
Give them 70 times 70 tries. I’m sure you’ve failed at something too. One being a high school level grasp on the English language.
|
|
thegwliar
|
Posted 9:06 pm, 03/29/2019
|
Thank you we agree on something.
|
|
sgtkracka
|
Posted 3:40 pm, 03/29/2019
|
well i agree with you here GW.....what you are talking about though is the difference between helping and enabling....and the line between them can be very blurry at times....enabling is not helpful....and even legitimate attempts to "help" can often lead to enabling so when you give people help, it should be thought out carefully to make sure it doesn't become enabling ipso facto.
|
|
thegwliar
|
Posted 2:47 pm, 03/29/2019
|
There is where I disagree. I have a brother in this shape right now.
I have helped him many of times for many of years. In return he steals off of me, I have defended him with people, saying he is doing good. Then get hart broken when I hear he is messed up again.
I am done with him.
I think a lot of his problem is people keep helping straiten up until he gets board and starts running with the other dope heads.
|
|
smalltownman
|
Posted 12:05 pm, 03/29/2019
|
thegwliar (view profile) Posted 11:57 am, 03/29/2019 I typed a quiet length response but some how it vanished.
But to sum it how many chances do we give these people ?
If it's your child or a loved one, as many chances as needed.
|
|
thegwliar
|
Posted 11:57 am, 03/29/2019
|
I typed a quiet length response but some how it vanished.
But to sum it how many chances do we give these people ?
|
|
sgtkracka
|
Posted 10:11 am, 03/29/2019
|
GW......there are an awful lot of people who DO want help. It's impossible for either of us to prove numbers as to who wants to quit, versus who doesn't want to quit, who got hooked recreationally, versus who got hooked through legitimate pain management needs, or who was a ship-bag before they were addicted, versus after they were addicted....and so on, and so on.
my point is, these are arguments and questions that will never have direct easy answers and these exchanges are fruitless to actual solutions.
As for your one-chance-only proposal, this is not reality. Your logic dictates that if someone doesn't succeed after the first try that they will never succeed.....this is preposterous and there are plenty of numbers i can show you to prove you wrong. Imagine if weight watchers kicked everybody out that gained a pound since their last visit....one chance only right?
So what do you propose? if anybody fails at something just one time, that they should give up forever? All these one-chancers that you propose to just "let them rot," there's not enough jail space to house every addict in the nation who blew their first chance.....besides, they would then be living off of your tax dollars......so what's the alternative? Leaving them to roam the streets? If you just let every single addict who failed after one chance "rot" on the streets, there's gonna be a lot of rotting people out there....breaking into your house, stealing your stuff, leaving needles everywhere.... or much much worse......with that much "rotting" people on the streets, you're looking at a zombie apocalypse.
This completely ridiculous hard-line approach to addiction is so outdated and such an abysmal failure, that it's now been reduced to meaningless soundbytes that are regurgitated here and there, by people with no clue about addiction and the bigger societal impact that it affects....or they just have no sympathy. Neither standpoint offers anything of value to the conversation and does nothing to embrace solutions.
What you've consistently been doing is taking the worst aspects about SOME addicts, along with the fact that clinics aren't a 100% magic bullet cure that works the first time every time, and using them as your talking points to say (i assume) that clinics should not be in operation, and that we should just leave all addicts who didn't succeed after one try, to just die on the streets.
This is completely unrealistic, inhumane, and isn't doing a thing to help anyone.
I respect the way you feel, and when i look at some addicts out there, and at the things some of them have done, i can see your point of view.....but if that's the way you feel, then this is not something you should be contributing your 2 cents on as to what the rest of us need to be doing to address it. I'm not gonna hire a diabetic to be my cupcake-taster or ask a blind man to help pick the paint color for my new bedroom. Likewise for addiction, if someone has no empathy and patience for addicts, or they don't understand the problem of addiction, then they don't have much place in the conversation about it.
|
|
aFicIoNadoS
|
Posted 9:30 am, 03/29/2019
|
Ive never met an addict that didnt start with alcohol. And like Sgt said, they pretty much all had other things going on that added to the use. Its a lot more complicated than just stop.
|
|
thegwliar
|
Posted 9:22 am, 03/29/2019
|
sgtkracka
The thing is a lot and I do mean a lot don't want help to get off the stuff. They want pidy and hand outs. How many chances should a person get . They should have one chance. Give every resource they need. If they go back, let them rot.
But I do see what your saying. And I am not bashing you. But to just keep giving and giving is not fixing.
|
|
antithesis
|
Posted 3:07 pm, 03/28/2019
|
I can't of course divulge specifics but I know for a fact a doctor who handed out Class 2 drugs hand over fist to their patients. Now, they have a new doc and they are taking all the patients off and getting them to use over the counter generic type pain relievers. Patients were coming in to the office so high they could barely walk down the hallway.
I know several of those doctors, too, Havi. And it's incredibly depressing, you see these doctors that hand out Oxy like candy and end up making millions!
But at least the state is cracking down a little on it. Now, literally every opiod prescription goes in a database to prevent addicts from shopping around. They can still get around it if they try hard enough, of course, but at least the doctor has to answer for every opiod prescription he writes now.
|
|
gratefuleone
|
Posted 2:25 pm, 03/28/2019
|
168 max, good question! Think of the worst stomach bug u ever had now would you sign up if u knew u was gonna go they that. Methadone is a miracle if used properly!!!!!
|
|
sgtkracka
|
Posted 10:49 am, 03/28/2019
|
Gwliar....ive met several ship-bag addicts, and plenty of ship-bag sober people. No one is questioning that people who got hooked through recreational use made a series of very bad decisions.....but some people have bad brain chemistry, past traumas, or a host of other issues that make coping and good decision making more difficult for them than it is for normal people.....i'm not making excuses....just listing reasons.
Ive seen good people who got hooked innocently through legitimate pain reasons and completely turn into monsters.
My point is, the paths that got these people here is irrelevant to treating the ones in active addiction. What matters is that when they want to change and help themselves to get clean, we should embrace their willingness to try.
I want to solve the problem and we can only do that by embracing solutions....not focusing on where they went wrong in the past, playing the blame game, and assassinating their character.
There is a time for dealing with the past. That's in counseling, AA, church, or some other program with an understanding listener......but before anything can change, you have to get them past the physical addiction.....so when someone surrenders to the street and checks into a clinic, we should embrace their willingness to get help and not crap all over the method they choose to start doing it.
|
|
HaHavishnu
|
Posted 9:59 am, 03/28/2019
|
I can't of course divulge specifics but I know for a fact a doctor who handed out Class 2 drugs hand over fist to their patients. Now, they have a new doc and they are taking all the patients off and getting them to use over the counter generic type pain relievers. Patients were coming in to the office so high they could barely walk down the hallway.
|
|
Thegwliar
|
Posted 9:38 am, 03/28/2019
|
Lets cut through the horse ship here.
1. This day in time, is there a single person in the United States that does not know that these drugs are addictive, and they can ruin your lives.
2. Did the people taking this stuff know and not care about the repercussions. This would be like me telling you if you drive your car into a bridge embankment a hundred miles a hour it will kill you. And all you can think about is ( it will be fun ) don't cry for help afterwards. 90 % of these people do this to there self, knowing full well what the outcome could be. Not caring .
Now I do know of people that has gotten addictated because they were put on this stuff for a valid reason. Like a broke arm or back. These are the people that needs help.
The ones doing it for recreation is the problem. Stop feeding these dang people. Stop petting them. Stop giving them there dope. Stop being politically correct and call them what they are a peace of ship. A drain on society a burden.
If I have offended you. Do a few things. Stop the dope, Stop being a peace of ship. Get a job, contribute to society. Help a elderly person across the road instead of stealing there money.
|
|
sgtkracka
|
Posted 8:25 am, 03/28/2019
|
excuse me.....should have said, "and then found out they *WERE pregnant".....
|
|
sgtkracka
|
Posted 11:51 pm, 03/27/2019
|
168amax....yes.... and they prefer methadone because it is the most studied so it has more evidence-based research behind it. I know that at one point in time, women who were on subutex and then found out they weren’t pregnant were switched over to methadone.
|
|
OpenCasket
|
Posted 10:46 pm, 03/27/2019
|
Why not taper down off the opiates in a detox & take your handcuffs completely off instead of just loosening them? You're still a customer, a taxable one now.
|
|
168Amax
|
Posted 10:46 pm, 03/27/2019
|
Just wondering do pregnant women receive methadone in the program?
|
|
gratefuleone
|
Posted 10:39 pm, 03/27/2019
|
Speaking from experience!!!!!
I lived in a pos trailer driving a 600$ when I decided to get help and I chose the methadone clinic. I now own my own 140,000$ home and make a very nice annual salary in a career job. WITHOUT a DOUBT I would not have these things if it was not for Dr. Burson at the clinic!! However just like anything else it all depends what the motive is. I was ready for success. If someone is not ready then they can abuse methadone. I wished I would have know about methadone 3 years before I did. Quit trashing methadone clinics, They actually help the ones that want it!!!!!!
|
|
antithesis
|
Posted 6:53 pm, 03/26/2019
|
Mikey, I haven't worked in this field in a long time, but I do remember some things. You can't usually just quit something like meth cold turkey, your body will go into shock and it can be lethal.
The only real way to stop using is to taper off the dosage slowly, reducing the physical dependency. Which is what a methadone clinic does, but it gives you a weaker, lower dose that's controlled.
The problem is that it focuses on the physical dependency. It's up to the user to get help on recovering from the mental dependency.
|
|
|
