EDITION: Wilkes County â–¼
â–º FAQs â–º PLACE A CLASSIFIED AD â–º ADVERTISE YOUR BUSINESS
37 °
Fair
Registered Users, Log In Here
â–º
GDP growth over the last 8 years

#TrumpBestPresidentEver

Posted 4:58 pm, 03/04/2017

Economic growth: The Obama economy has grown about 2% a year. That's decent, but the pre-recession average is over 3%. --- Clinton News Network

http://money.cnn.com/2016/0...n-economy/

antithesis

Posted 4:34 pm, 03/04/2017

Someone reminded me of another problem during the Bush administration: he was actively falsifying his budget, hiding the cost of the Iraq war:

https://www.theguard...t-iraq-war

When Obama came into office, he corrected that, so the cost of the war began showing in the federal debt and deficit again. Bush spent $1.7 trillion on the war that didn't show up anywhere... he cooked the books.

And the Obama administration was left on the hook for finishing the war and the subsequent clean up.

It's unfortunate that this little tidbit of knowledge is going to be forgotten. I had forgotten it, too, but someone smarter than I am reminded me

antithesis

Posted 10:56 am, 03/02/2017

Brandon, look at the chart I posted on 2/27 at 7:16. What you see is that the debt outgrew the GDP, which is the opposite of what you want. That means that we were borrowing more than we could afford to pay back.

You're right, the GDP did go up under Bush, but the debt went up at a higher rate. When Bush came into office, the Debt to GDP Ratio was 56.4%. When he left, it was 84.2%, and he had increased the debt by 27.8 points.

In comparison, when Obama left the ratio was 104.7, an increase of 20.5 points. So while it's true that the debt increased significantly under Obama, it was still less than while under Bush's term, which is why he kept a lower Debt to GDP ratio.

As for where the money went, you'll find this interesting, I think:

http://www.usgovernmentspen...17rs12016n

The largest expense is in healthcare, using 28% of our budget. You can scroll through previous years and see how it has gone up and up and up over the years. This is why AHA is so important... within about 20 years we could expect the nation to be virtually bankrupt due to healthcare costs, unless something is drastically changed.

The second largest expense (25%) was pensions, and the third largest (21%) is military.

Crypt

Posted 6:43 am, 03/02/2017

So one trillion dollars would more than cover Wilkes County using $5 bills.

Crypt

Posted 6:29 am, 03/02/2017

A dollar bill is 2.61 inches × 6.14 inches=16.0254 sq. inches. So a trillion dollars 16.0254 × 1 e12 =1.60254 e13 sq. inches. That would cover 3,992.8 sq. miles. To put this into perspective, Wilkes County has an area of 757 sq. miles.

brandonthefairchild@gmail.com

Posted 11:53 pm, 03/01/2017

24 hours and nothing?

brandonthefairchild@gmail.com

Posted 12:00 am, 03/01/2017

How can you say it was corrected, when under Bush we had much higher growth in GDP?

We hit a downwards trend and kept borrowing money on things that wouldn't pay off. Infrastructure improvements sound great when you say we'll expand roads and highways, but they fall under the same complaints as the Keystone pipeline. It creates jobs to create the project, but once complete only maintenance jobs remain as long term employment.

I guess the better question is where did the money go? 9-10 trillion dollars is a large amount to borrow in 8 years, when you compare previous leadership borrowing that is a fraction of the total borrowed funds. Borrowed funds like we saw with Quantitative Easement looks like we are just chooching along a golden rail, but it is like getting a loan for a million dollars and showing a print out from your checking account to your friends. That million dollars actually cost you almost twice as much, once the loan is paid off and you still only have a million dollars worth of stuff to show for it.

As far as the Trump quote I am unfamiliar with it. It is half true though, our money is only is as good as we say it is. It is all by fiat and no longer held be any valuable commodity standard. Congress still holds the purse strings and can hold back causing a government shutdown if need be. I remember Obama willing to let the country's credit rating tank, causing a shut down because congress wanted to defund the ACA.

antithesis

Posted 9:30 pm, 02/28/2017

Because that's not correct, Brandon. Look at the chart that I posted earlier. During the Bush era, we had borrowed more than we could afford to pay. It was only during the Obama administration that we corrected that.

The majority of the national debt is money borrowed from ourselves:

http://static5.businessinsi...5%20pm.png

http://www.businessinsider....to-2013-10

All that happens is that we borrow money from, say, the Federal Reserve, then pay it back with interest. Usually, that interest is based on the GDP, too, so the Federal Trust is betting on the improvement of the economy. If it doesn't improve, we make lower payments.

This is sort of like, you have a savings account with $1 million in it, and then you take $150,000 from it to buy a house. Then you make payments back into your savings account, but if you lose your job and can't make a payment then it doesn't really matter.

I do worry that Trump doesn't understand this, either. He made the comment that we should just borrow more, and it didn't matter since we printed our own money. So he implied that he intends to increase the debt well over the GDP (just like Bush did), which would be a terrible economic mistake.

brandonthefairchild@gmail.com

Posted 6:48 pm, 02/28/2017

Anti,
for the short response, why would you want debt for a country?
In your analogy you have a life span of debt. I get an expensive house to eventually own it. A mortgage lasts for about 30 years, then you own the property. Right now we are putting up our country as collateral, because we don't have the means to pay our way. Being in debt means we owe favors and makes us weak.

We haven't seen a sudden 2x burst in income, at best a moderate COLA (cost of living adjustment) which is the equivalent of your yearly raise that barely covers inflation. We've spent beyond our means and need to readjust our habits to get back in line.

antithesis

Posted 6:20 pm, 02/28/2017

Fiction, I found your problem.

You're referring to rGDP, where I'm referring to nominal GDP. There's a difference.

GDP does not adjust for inflation or deflation, so it shows the actual value at the time. Your chart adjusts for inflation and deflation, so when there's a period of deflation it artificially shows a higher rGDP.

Neither is wrong, they're just different.

Look at your debt chart, during Obama, we went from 10 trillion to 20 trillion in debt, your chart does not say that.

This is because you don't understand basic economics.

Let's say that you make $20,000 a year, and buy a house worth $60,000. That's 3 times your annual income.

Now, let's say that someone else makes $100,000 a year, and buys a house worth $200,000. Yes, their debt is higher, but it's only 2 times their annual income. So they can pay it back easier than you can.

This is why the debt should always increase when the GDP is higher. It's smart to invest in the economy when the return on that investment is greater than the payment made on the debt.

Donald_J_Trump

Posted 12:01 pm, 02/28/2017

Antit, you are so wrong again, you have to be the dumbest person on gowilkes. Look at your debt chart, during Obama, we went from 10 trillion to 20 trillion in debt, your chart does not say that.

If you borrow a million dollars and add it to your house hold, I bet you grow !!!
But you have to pay that money back !!! That is where the problem comes in. That's why Obama has almost destroyed us.

hangsleft

Posted 8:57 am, 02/28/2017

I'm not sure where you came up with any of your "conclusions".

I believe the economy great each year at a steady pass after trying to recover from one of the worse fiscal disasters brought on by Bush policies and Trump is trying to pass those same policies again. Trump wants to give Wall Street back all the power. So of course Wall Street loves it right now.

fiction fixer

Posted 8:50 am, 02/28/2017

So..you concede that Anti is pushing 'fake news', and Obama really didn't ever achieve a 3 percent GDP.

And you're saying that the 'Bush mess" is the reason?

Well then, ...just imagine the Obama Mess" Obama left for President Trump to fix.

However, with you being one of the "libtards", I'm betting you won't be as understanding and logical about Trump.

hangsleft

Posted 8:25 am, 02/28/2017

And President Obama inherited a mess, this is a fact. You don't recover from such disastrous policies as the Bush years in a few months, it just can not happen.

fiction fixer

Posted 8:21 am, 02/28/2017

Guess it must depend on where you look, and what you're trying to sell Anti.

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, you're selling 'fake news'.

Here's their findings going all the way back to Hoover, with grafts and charts.

http://www.cnsnews.com/blog...gdp-growth
obama-may-be-first-president-hoover-not-see-3-gdp-growth

Hey, are you one of those libtards that can't be trusted with Statistics that Sparkling warned us about?
Are you just hunting around for something positive to prop up the community organizer?

antithesis

Posted 8:35 pm, 02/27/2017

Whoever Louis Woodhill is, he's obviously wrong. As my first post clearly showed.

You can repeat it as many times as you want, but it still won't be true.

Fiction Fixer

Posted 8:31 pm, 02/27/2017

However, making the wildly optimistic assumption that 2016 RGDP growth will come in at the CBO's current forecast (2.67%), Obama will be the only U.S. president in history that did not deliver a single year of 3.0%+ economic growth.


fiction fixer

Posted 8:30 pm, 02/27/2017

On Friday, the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) reported that 2015 U.S. real GDP (RGDP) growth was 2.38%. No matter what revisions are subsequently made, 2015 will have been the tenth year in a row that RGDP growth came in at under 3.0%. The longest previous such run in U.S. economic history was only four years, and the last time that this happened was during the Great Depression (1930 - 1933).

Even worse, and this should be the defining issue of the 2016 elections, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now forecasting that America will never see 3.0% economic growth again. This should be drawing howls of protest, at least from Republicans, but there has been little reaction thus far.

From 1790 to 2000, U.S. RGDP growth averaged 3.79%. America needs at least 3.0% economic growth-the nation cannot defend itself and pay its bills without it. However, America's elites have largely given up on growth, and are now distracting themselves with academic musings about "secular stagnation."

Hillary Clinton is trying to position herself as the logical heir to President Obama's "legacy." Hillary is asking the voters to give her the job of protecting and continue Obama's "achievements." In a way, what Hillary is trying to do is odd, but in another way, it isn't. Here's why.

The rate of real economic growth is the single greatest determinate of both America's strength as a nation and the wellbeing of the American people. And, Obama's record in this area has been truly dismal.

Right now, the nation is probably already in a recession. The BEA's first estimate of 4Q2015 RGDP growth was only 0.69%, and there is mounting evidence that this will later be revised downward. However, making the wildly optimistic assumption that 2016 RGDP growth will come in at the CBO's current forecast (2.67%), Obama will be the only U.S. president in history that did not deliver a single year of 3.0%+ economic growth.


sparkling water

Posted 8:08 pm, 02/27/2017

Obama was slow and steady.

Hangsleft

Posted 8:04 pm, 02/27/2017

They are unable to stay on topic.

Slow and steady growth wins the race.

Advertise your business here for $5/day
This is crazy: in December 2023, the average banner here was seen 1,139,054 times and was clicked 170 times! Click here to advertise for less than $5 /day
RHA Is Hiring in Wilkes County!
RHA Health Services is hiring various roles in Intellectual/Developmental Disability and Behavioral Health services. RHA has provided quality care for 30+ years. Learn more and apply at rhajobs.com!
KFC
Now hiring all locations