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HOME :: Community Voice : Gay leaders blame TV ads, Obama for loss in Maine :
Gay leaders blame TV ads, Obama for loss in Maine
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RadioGiant

Posted 10:34 am, 11/05/2009

Perhaps the problem is merely using the term "marriage". When voters get to approve the exact same legal benefits of marriage, but simply don't call it that, it seems to pass rather handily, as was the case in Washington State on Tuesday.

kilby

Posted 10:30 am, 11/05/2009

each time the topic comes to a vote, it loses handily. Do not blame Obama or ads.

pgato64

Posted 09:48 am, 11/05/2009

If you truely are open minded about it try this website.

http://www.pfox.org/Removal...

pgato64

Posted 09:46 am, 11/05/2009

MTNBkr because it's politically correct to say being gay is not a choice doesn't make it accurate. There has been a scientific project going on for years trying to indentify a gay gene and it is yet to be discovered. They say that they may have isolated a stand where it MIGHT be found but once again it has not been proven it exist.

Homosexuality was considired an abnormal condition by the Psychiatric workd up until the 60's and 70's where instead of having open scientific debate about it pyschiatrist and pyschologist that still held to the tradiotional believe were ostrisized and became a politicized debate instead of a scientific one.

So sorry to disagree with you but those are the facts.

Eugenia_Victoria

Posted 09:41 am, 11/05/2009

Well, actually you do need it to be approved to get any kind of marital benefits, tax breaks, or shared insurance.

Mtnbiker

Posted 09:39 am, 11/05/2009

My point exactly Questionmark

Questionmark

Posted 09:38 am, 11/05/2009

My marriage is not in danger of being messed with by the government. I don't need the government to approve my marriage.

Eugenia_Victoria

Posted 09:36 am, 11/05/2009

Well apparently marriage IS an ability that has to be approved by the government, or at least that's what you and yours are fighting so hard to achieve.

Mtnbiker

Posted 09:34 am, 11/05/2009

Pgato that might be true IF being gay was a choice or a preference born of free will. It's been a while since I've heard anyone knowledgeable on the subject call being gay a choice.

So basically the premise of your black / gay remark is patently invalid. (Actually it's more than just wrong only I'm trying to be nice here)

Questionmark

Posted 09:33 am, 11/05/2009

Anyone who thinks marriage is a right obviously is not married or doesn't understand why they're married. A right is an ability you are granted by a government for being a citizen of a nation. That right is connected to the furtherance or operation of the government.

Eugenia_Victoria

Posted 09:33 am, 11/05/2009

So the sole purpose and reponsibility of marriage is to procreate and continue the race? Well by that maxim a marraige between too heterosexuals who choose not to have children is null and void -- and what about people who are sterile and barren, should they too be denied the right to marry because they aren't doing it for the only reason it should be done?

pgato64

Posted 09:28 am, 11/05/2009

RG your comparison of Gays to Blacks will offend many Blacks Your comparing an entire race to someones sexual prefrence I thought that you would display more intelligence then that based on your previous post.


Also you conviently ignore discussing why Liberals really aren't true LIberals and have really gotten away from Liberalism.

writer46

Posted 09:26 am, 11/05/2009

Radio probably supports beastiality, too.

Gay marriage is a right? What a stupid statement. Has to be his butt talking 'cause surely his brain knows better.

Questionmark

Posted 09:25 am, 11/05/2009

Blacks have the responsibility to marry and continue the race. Women DO have the ability to make rational decisions, vote and work. Homosexuals CANNOT procreate or continue their race. That is like trying to marry your house or car. You can have companionship and friendship without marriage. You can have sexual activity outside of marriage (although homosexuals cannot have true sexual intercourse). Marriage is a responsibility to stabilize the social fabric by forming true families connected by blood to provide stability in the lives of future generations. Wake up and smell the coffee. Stop being so openminded that your brains have fallen out.

Mtnbiker

Posted 09:24 am, 11/05/2009

apparently in teenagers the level of brainwashing is directly proportional to their lack of prejudice .... thanks for the explanation Questionmark

no one is suggesting that teens / early 20s are more capable of intelligent thought and reasoning ... they do, however, tend to be less prejudiced and are often more likely to decide an issue based on it's merits / logic as opposed to their preconceptions

Question for the day: Is any hetero marriage that is somehow threatened, compromised or harmed by gay marriage worth saving? I mean c'mon, if it's on that shaky of a foundation what's its value ?

Eugenia_Victoria

Posted 09:22 am, 11/05/2009

And had this issue been addressed, the founding fathers would have been horrified to see Christianity used as a base for any kind of legislation....

One of the most common statements from the "Religious Right" is that they want this country to "return to the Christian principles on which it was founded". However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States had little use for Christianity, and many were strongly opposed to it. They were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.

When the Founders wrote the nation's Constitution, they specified that "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." (Article 6, section 3) This provision was radical in its day-- giving equal citizenship to believers and non-believers alike. They wanted to ensure that no single religion could make the claim of being the official, national religion, such as England had. Nowhere in the Constitution does it mention religion, except in exclusionary terms. The words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, and God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not once.

The Declaration of Independence gives us important insight into the opinions of the Founding Fathers. Thomas Jefferson wrote that the power of the government is derived from the governed. Up until that time, it was claimed that kings ruled nations by the authority of God. The Declaration was a radical departure from the idea of divine authority.

The 1796 treaty with Tripoli states that the United States was "in no sense founded on the Christian religion" (see below). This was not an idle statement, meant to satisfy muslims-- they believed it and meant it. This treaty was written under the presidency of George Washington and signed under the presidency of John Adams.
http://freethought.mbdojo.c..." width=310>

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists. Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God, (Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible. They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity. Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists. Most of them were stoutly opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders. Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one.

If the Christian Right Extremists wish to return this country to its beginnings, so be it... because it was a climate of Freethought. The Founders were students of the European Enlightenment. Half a century after the establishment of the United States, clergymen complained that no president up to that date had been a Christian. In a sermon that was reported in newspapers, Episcopal minister Bird Wilson of Albany, New York, protested in October 1831: "Among all our presidents from Washington downward, not one was a professor of religion, at least not of more than Unitarianism." The attitude of the age was one of enlightened reason, tolerance, and free thought. The Founding Fathers would turn in their graves if the Christian Extremists had their way with this country.

Consider this: IF indeed the members of the First Continental Congress were all bible-believing, "God-fearing" men, would there ever have been a revolution at all?
"For rebellion as is the sin of witchcraft." 1 Samuel, 15:23

Would they have initiated a rebellion if indeed they thought it was equal to witchcraft (a crime punishable by death)? But that's only the tip of the iceberg. The New Testament gives clear instructions to Christians on how to behave when ruled under a monarchy, as were the Founders.

1 Peter 2:13: "For the Lord's sake accept the authority of every human institution, whether of the emperor as supreme, or of governors, as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right."

Paul wrote in Romans 13:1: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities; for there is no authority except from God, and those authorities that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resist authority resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

The Founders clearly did not heed what was written in the bible. If they were in fact "good" Christians, there would never have been an American Revolution. Compare the above passages with the Declaration of Independence:

"...when a long train of abuses and usurpations... evinces a design to reduce (the people) under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security..."

RadioGiant

Posted 09:20 am, 11/05/2009

"Funny" about "true conservatism'?

Have you ever read what "Mr. Conservative", Ronald Reagan's hero...the reason he changed parties...believed?

What's "funny" is that conservatives today have no idea what conservatism IS!

As for gay marriage not having existed when our founders came here...is THAT really your standard? Black people were bought and sold, and women couldn't own property or VOTE! Society improves itself over time.

Questionmark

Posted 09:18 am, 11/05/2009

Teenagers do not have the capacity for mature decisions. Otherwise, they could drive past 9 pm. Up until the 1960's, teenagers had basically the same rationale as their parents. It is the flaming liberals who seek social revolution who are teaching in universities to teachers who then teach children who become brainwashed teenagers who don't even think we have a right to live in the US because of the native americans. Radiogiant, you speak foolishness. Marriage is a responsibility to future generations of society, not a right. With "homosexual marriages" there is no future generation or stable society.

Bushman

Posted 09:18 am, 11/05/2009

Tempers Flair

pgato64

Posted 09:15 am, 11/05/2009

Wow Radio Giant that is funny about true conservatism! What about true Liberalism????

what America tries to pass off today as LIberals(Obama, Pelosi etc ) is FAR FAR from true Liberals. True Liberalism makes no distinction between civil liberties and economic liberties. As I am sure you know Liberal coomes from the root word LIBERTY and Liberty comes from the Latin word LIber meaning free unrstrained. So how is it that liberals support Mandatory Health insurance and fine on those who chose not to take it? How is it that Liberals believe in bailing out Automakers and Banks and making decisions about how they operate?

How is that Liberals have put most of the Gun laws on the books?

If you want to talk about Liberals and Conservatives then you must be unbiased and look at it with an open mind.


Also why didn't gay marriage exist when our founding fathers came over here? Why has it taken more then 200 yrs to surface?


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